INTERVIEW WITH ROBIN BRENNER

Why do you think librarians need to know about graphic novels?
First, librarians need to know (and even if they already know, remind themselves, as I often find myself doing) that graphic novels are a format. They are not a genre. There is a danger in thinking of them as a genre -- it does a disservice to the variety of graphic novels. As professionals introducing the medium to others, it's important to make the distinction. Thus statements like, "They're full of sex and violence!" can be defended. Just like any other format, there can be any kind of content.

Another vital thing librarians need to know about graphic novels is that they are, without any qualifications, literature. They take a different kind of understanding to read than traditional literature, true. Processing the images and the text of a graphic novel together create a unique kind of literacy, and should not be considered any less than traditional reading. Within this idea is also the simple fact that many people (librarians included) need to give themselves time to learn to read these titles. They're not as straightforward as they might seem, and it takes longer than one might expect to process all the information on a page. Even a visual person, as I consider myself, needs some time to digest.

How long has your site been up?
Let's see...the site's been up since the beginning of May 2002, so that would make it almost six months old.

How did you publicize it?
As it began as a school project, I hadn't particularly thought to advertise it. However, once I realized I wanted to continue with it and maintain it as a growing resource, I decided I should see what I could do to get the word out. I posted an introduction to the site and its location to various listservs I'm on that I felt would be interested including YALSA-BK run by ALA and GNLIB-L, a graphic novel librarian list. From there, word kind of spread on its own, and librarians began linking to my site from their teen and YA websites. School Library Journal approached me via email to feature it as the August Site of the Month, apparently from having attended the ALA Preconference in Atlanta on graphic novels and finding my site via a variety of links. As of right now, I've submitted my site to a variety of the major search engines (like Google and Yahoo!) and it is already within the Librarians' Index to the Internet.

Have you had a lot of interest so far?
I'd say I have a fair amount. I average around thirty visitors a day, with a visitor spike around the time I post my updates. The biggest visitng day was certainly right after the August SLJ article hit, with over nine hundred visitors in one day! I've been particularly happy that I've been getting a variety of feedback, either in the site's guestbook, the poll, or via email. I'm very happy to help anyone with a question, and the corrections of links or grammatical mistakes are always welcome. Of course, the kudos are always nice too. :)

Did you design the site yourself? How and when did you learn HTML?
I did indeed. I learned HTML about three years ago, although I learned only just enough to publish very simple personal web pages with no formatting to speak of or special decorations. I never took a class in HTML -- my greatest resource are the many informative and extremely funny tutorials at webmonkey.com. I tend to be the kind of learner who just starts in the middle and noodles around until I figure out what I need to know -- I'm a very hands on kind of girl.

Was your art background useful?
Definitely. I am often quite astonished by the array of, shall we say, frightening website designs out there in terms of color combinations and navigation set-up. Not that I'm an paragon of web design -- there are so many sites I envy for their interfaces and style. I had to work with what I had: a desire to create a beautiful and vibrant site with the knowledge and the tools I had. It's all about Photoshop and imagemaps. :)

How often do you update the site?
I try to update the site at least once a month, in terms of reviews, and hopefully more than that in terms of the news and gossip page. I also try to update my trumpet to the world, the random thoughts column, whenever I have any kind of revelation about the format. That, of course, depends upon my muse.

Do you do all of the reviews yourself, or do you have help?
I started off doing all of the reviews myself -- I've done about 90 at this point, as scary as that is for me to realize. I've just added a fellow reviewer to the website ranks, a coworker and best friend since high school, Jennifer Webb. She's done about four reviews at present, but she's got a whole lot more coming soon. I'm hoping to eventually add more reviewers, and I've had many various people show interest -- at this point it's all come down to my deciding on a reviewer application process.

How do you get the titles you review (do you get free review copies, read what the library gets, buy them yourself)?
Basically, all of the above. At first, most of the graphic novels I read were from other libraries in our Network, as I was reading them was to help our Young Adult Librarian, Pam Ikauniks, begin and maintain our own graphic novel collection at Cary Memorial Library. I dove into the collections to educate myself and thus pass on the knowledge to everyone else. Whammo, I was in love. So, I began haunting comics stores and buying certain titles I couldn't otherwise find. Once the website took off, and was featured in SLJ, I decided to see if I could get any review copies from publishers. Unlike book publishers, I've gathered that comics publishers do not have galley copies or proofs of any sort, so if I get anything, I get the current books. Many publishers have been fantastic about sending me titles appropriate for teens, and I've kept up my comics store visits (much to the dismay of my wallet). Once you start, you can never go back. :)

How would you respond to parents or other patrons who complain about the content graphic novels?
As always, it depends on the complaint, the person, and the situation. I respect everyone's opinion, of course, and I try to make sure to listen to what that person is saying to me with an open mind. I've discovered that the bulk of the conversations I've had are usually due to the stereotypes and stigmas that surround comics and graphic novels. Once I've had the chance to explain the format and its history, I tend to be able to allay peoples' fears.

Have you had to deal with a challenge recently?
I've never personally had to deal with a challenge. The closest I've had is a discussion with a patron, a fan of graphic novels in general, who was questioning their appropriateness for children. Due to our current situation in a temporary building, our Young Adult department is right next to the Children's Department, and frequently the kids end up in the YA area reading all of the graphic novels. Once I explained that those graphic novels are in fact intended for teenagers, and not younger children, the patron understood our intentions and seemed less worried.

Do you think graphic novels are more likely to be challenged than other library materials? Are there any titles in particular that seem to get into trouble?
As I said, we've had no official challenges here, and from the general conversations I've had with a variety of librarians from within my network and across the country via the GNLIB-L listserv, challenges do not seem to be more frequent than in any of the other YA collections. I think the main issue is cultural -- images, for whatever reasons, have more impact, and are potentially more inflammatory, than words. Many graphic novels do not contain content that's any different from any number of Young Adult novels, but the fact that they're presented in images makes it easier to make a snap judgement.

In terms of specific titles, there's no more rhyme or reason to the objections that to specific traditional titles. Nudity and language seem to be the most notable objections. One thing that comes up more often is the realization that manga titles, or Japanese print comics, reflect Japanese culture rather than American culture. Thus, there are different things that are shown in Japanese comics, such as some nudity and a bit of playing around with gender, that may seem odd to an American audience. I personally find it fascinating and fun, and have yet to see a title that was objectionable, but it may unsettle some people.

What are some of the main issues librarians seem to have with collecting graphic novels (for example, finding reviews, locating sources for purchasing materials, figuring out how to catalog or display them, problems with flimsy bindings. . .)?How have you overcome these issues at your library?
There are so many! Reviews, at this point, are becoming more of an issue. There had been no official source for librarians for reviews, though now there are columns in Library Journal, The Shy Librarian, and Kat Kan's long standing column in VOYA (Voices of Youth Advocates), "Graphically Speaking." There are many online review sources, as well as a few comics journals, but most are not geared toward the needs of librarians. There are slew of websites by librarians, my site among them, that are often very useful (see the links section of my site for the full list). At this point, though, nothing really replaces looking at titles yourself -- only you know your own community.

One comprehensive source for those familiar with comics is Diamond Comics Distributor's monthly Previews Catalog. The catalog is for comics stores and fans, and previews comics and GNs up to three months in advance. While it may feel intimidating to those new to the format, the folks on the GNLIB list insist it is a mine of information for those who want to dive on in.

At this point, in terms of purchasing, we get almost everything through our usual vendors. I know of many librarians who have relationships with their local comics stores for both purchasing and to keep in touch with the store's demographics. We have some great local comics stores in Boston who are happy to help librarians and libraries. Most comics store people are great fun, and I always get a bit of a kick walking into comics stores in my business-casual work getup and breaking up some stereotypes about comics readers. :)

Cataloguing is a big issue, and a complicated one. As I'm not a cataloguer, I can't really offer any great insight into the process. However, I can tell you that it is very important that everyone is involved, from the YA librarians to the cataloguers. Each have a different perspective on graphic novels and the ins and outs of organizing a collection. As the format is newly distinct, shall we say, the cataloguing issues get hairier. They depend on local collection set-up, the physical set-up, and how your library generally works in terms of collection placement. Everyone will be much happier if they work together to find a solution that satisfies all concerned, which hopefully shouldn't be too hard.

So far the binding has not been a huge issue at my library, though I hear stories from other libraries on this problem. As our collection is still relatively young, we'll have to see. We do have loose pages, which we mend. We also have discovered a clever use for Kapco covers (stiff plastic covers for paperbacks) that allow us to prevent the covers from curling, as they are wont to do. Reinforcement of the covers and binding is necessary for a title to last. For certain very popular titles, such as Sailor Moon, you must also commit to purchasing replacement copies as the older ones wear out.

Publishers within the industry are usually very receptive to librarians' concerns, and are working on making sure that bindings will hold up to a fair amount of use. In general, the publishers I've interacted with are very aware of librarians and libraries as a market for them, and are very helpful.

How have teens in your library responded to your graphic novel collection? What kind of budget do you have?
So far, so good! The collection is currently kept in a cover-facing-front magazine shelf, and most often, the titles are checked out. Right now, the middle titles go out twice a month, with a three-week loan period, while the most popular go out three to four times a month. The collection is getting big enough now that we need to work out another place to keep them, but it's definitely a success. We're also currently working on getting a collection of graphic novels for the Children's department, and we're developing another YA graphic novel collection and an adult graphic novel collection at our smaller Branch library. Hopefully this will help distinguish between the age levels and advertise just how much variety there is within that format.

As for budget, right now our graphic novels are bought from within our Young Adult budget. We started out with a seed collection graphic novels, purchased all at once, of about twenty volumes. From there, we purchase about 4 or 5 titles a month. We've had to be careful about what we buy and what we commit to in terms of series. I've had the added boon of having permission from the publishers to donate my review copies to our library.

How can librarians who are just starting a graphic novel collection convince others that it’s worthwhile to add these materials?
Nothing beats enthusiasm, I've discovered. As I am officially, and proudly, a comics geek now, I can talk for hours about the greatness of graphic novels, and it does seem to catch on.

Try to make sure you know the definitions, and prepare yourself for skepticism, both externally and internally. At a workshop I recently attended as a member of a panel discussing graphic novels, many librarians voiced that a lot of the objections and reservations about starting a collection come from within the library rather than outside.

Simply making sure to point people toward a subject that they like often helps convince them that the format itself can do more than they may have known. If they like memoirs, try giving them Pedro and Me, or Maus. Use titles like Maus, which won the Pulitzer Prize, as a touchstone, as many people are at least aware of the title but may not realize there's a whole tradition surrounding it.

It's a growing format, but there are so many stereotypes -- that it's all sex and violence, that it's sexist, that it's not literature, that it's dumbed down, or that it's only for reluctant readers. All of these things can be true, in particular titles, but they're never true as a blanket statement. It's important to know what the stereotypes are and know how to discuss them. When I've gotten questions about sexism, for example, I do concede that it's there, and that historically sexism has existed in the format and in the industry. I also point out that this is true of other media, including film and television. The key here is that it's not universal, and what has been there is getting better.

I can testify, and do to whoever will listen, that graphic novels can be just as complex and subtle as any other work of fiction, and by the same logic, they can also be silly and light. Librarians are certainly aware that books that fall into both categories, so it's just a matter of acknowledging that the same spectrum exists in this format.

How did you start working at libraries? When you started as a library technician, did you know you wanted to become a librarian?
I've been volunteering and working in libraries ever since I was in middle school. Oddly enough, though, it was not until my senior year of college that I realized that I could and might want to be a librarian. I was majoring in Creative Writing at my college, Bryn Mawr, a major which does not necessarily plop you directly into a career track. As I considered my options, I began to think of what my strengths were. I love to research, and I loved sharing my love for literature. Through my job as a circulation staff member, I frequently observed the Reference librarians working in our library, and began to pin down just what they did. Not only that, they were cool people. I thought, "I can do that. I want to do that."

Once I started work as a Library Technician, I was pretty sure I wanted to be a librarian, but I wasn't positive. However, as I began to realize just how much I loved both the job, specifically the public service aspect of it, I was hooked. Now it's hard for me to think of doing anything else, though I still hope to incorporate and develop my other talents including writing and art.

Do you think you’ll become a teen or youth services librarian, or do you have other goals? Do you plan to stay in public libraries?
At this point, I do think I'm settling on becoming a teen librarian -- simply because that's when books meant the most to me. I'm still open to whatever opportunities might arise. I'm also hoping as I said above, once I finish my Masters, to rekindle some of my other talents, which I hope to combine to create a graphic novel or two of my own!

On your web site, you name Oracle from Birds of Prey as your favorite character in a graphic novel. Have you seen the new TV show. What do you think?
I have indeed -- I've been anticipating it for months now. At this point, I'm letting the show settle into its identity -- most first seasons of any show hit bumps in style and character definition. Oracle, I feel, is perhaps the best done character at this point, though I can't be sure if that's simply the actress, Dina Meyer, or the writing of her character, or both. I'm still a little sad that she isn't a librarian -- I have no problem with teachers, of course, and I understand that they probably didn't want to seem to mimic Buffy's mentor Giles.

However I will say that I'm getting a wee bit tired of the less than subtle moral at the end of each episode and the one-note quality of Huntress and Dinah. Gotham's universe was always much more shaded in grey than the show seems to want to admit. Although Batman may have become a vigilante in order to avenge his parents' murders, he didn't run around whining about it either. He just brooded, silently. The show could use a little more silence, in that same way -- it's subtle, and it allows for more mystery.

Right now I'm beginning to get hopeful about another new TV show in the works based on James Robinson's excellent Starman books, slated for production on ABC. I really love the series, and I'm excited to see where it might go.

Anything else you’d like to add?
Just the usual stats, in case you don't already have it:

email: robin@noflyingnotights.com
School: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Work: Cary Memorial Library in Lexington, MA

Also, for more info on the GNLIB listserv, a great resource for all, check out their home on the web: http://www.angelfire.com/comics/gnlib/